The Apartment Department
Multifamily marketing does not stand still. Neither do we.
The Apartment Department is a podcast for multifamily (apartment) marketers, operators and industry partners who want to think differently about how marketing drives performance.
Through conversations with marketing leaders, suppliers, and operators who are shaping the future of multifamily, we focus on what they are building, testing, and refining to strengthen marketing teams and drive measurable results.
Our goal is simple. We want you to leave each episode with a new perspective and at least one idea worth testing.
Hosted by Anne Baum and Chris Johnson, exploring how strategy, systems, and performance intersect in multifamily.
Produced by Carlos Marquez.
The Apartment Department
All Things Zillow Rentals: A Deep Dive with Jami Thomas
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode, Chris and Anne speak with Jami Thomas, VP of Sales at Zillow Rentals, where we cover a wide range of exciting topics including:
- The rumor that Zillow may be phasing out their PPL options for packages.
- Zillows recent partnerships with two AI powerhouses, EliseAI and Google Gemini.
- Best practices for creating effective Zillow listings.
- Utilizing your Zillow support team and data resources to maximize results.
- Zillow Rentals vision for the future.
For any multifamily marketer or operations professional who has been dying to know what Zillow Rentals next move is after their already strong year, this episode is for you!
Flamingo - Resident Retention App
400K+ units use Flamingo’s Resident Retention Platform to stop Retention Leak & hit 63%+ retention.
And now a message from our sponsor Flamingo. Every multifamily marketer wants to know what the next big thing will be. At the apartment department, we think that resident retention is the next big thing, which is why we're excited to have Flamingo as our podcast sponsor. Flamingo, founded by Jude Chai, is an all-in-one resident retention platform used by some of the top performing communities in the country. And here's a fun little secret. If you see a community with 300 plus online reviews and 65% plus retention, there's a good chance they're using Flamingo. From automated renewal management and resident events to amenity bookings and even an AI concierge, Flamingo brings everything together in one sleek app that residents actually use. Learn more at getflamingo.com. Hi everyone and welcome to the apartment department. My name is Ann Baum, and with me as always is my co-host Chris Johnson. And we are so excited today because we have a very special guest, Jamie Thomas. She is the vice president of sales at Zillow Rentals. And Jamie is here today to really do a couple things. So one, um, she is going to talk about the future of Zillow Rentals, and that includes, um, of course, the buzzword that everyone uh is talking about, some AI functions and features that will be coming out with Zillow Rentals. She is also going to be addressing um the idea of paper lease and uh packages and uh you know some rumors that might have been swirling around. Uh, is paper lease going away? So, Jamie, we can't thank you enough for being here. Um, if you can just take a moment and introduce yourself and tell the listeners just a little bit about yourself, and we'll go ahead and dive in.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me, Ann and Kraus. I'm a first-time caller but longtime listener of the pod. Uh, I lead the rental sales team at Zillow, which means I work closely with partners to make sure they have tools and support to reach renters and fill units. I've been at Zillow for a very long time. So I will be at my 14-year anniversary at Zillow here in November, which is wild when I hear myself say that out loud. Uh, I started on the for sale business when no one knew about Zillow and spent about seven years there, and then moved into the rentals business in 2019 and have been on a road to making this marketplace full, rich, and transparent and providing better support for our partners to meet their needs. Um, everything we do at Zillow is about one thing, which is helping renters find home. And then my role at Zillow is making sure our partners connect with those renters faster. So that's a little bit about me, how long I've been at Zillow, and I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. No, and and we appreciate I think Zillow has definitely been kind of the darling of multifamily marketing this year. So to be able to dive deep into the inner workings of Zillow is exciting. So let's start with something, you know, I think that everyone has kind of been talking about. And this actually originated from a podcast episode a couple of times ago, um, where we had a wild prediction that Zillow pay per lease might be going away and might be replaced with packages. And um, you know, I think Chris and I both gasped in horror, like, no, don't do that to us. Um, and so we're hoping you can tell our listeners uh is that true or not? What is the future of pay-per-lease?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think I also gasped when I heard that uh podcast because we're committed to offering pay-per-lease and our subscription-based advertising packages for our partners. We want to offer two doors to participate and partner with Zilla Rentals, and that's based on whatever fits your needs, your portfolio, uh, and what's going on in your market. So pay-per-lease is not being phased out. Uh, our goal is that we offer you more choice, more flexibility. Um, I try to think of some fancy metaphor and explain this, but like I literally can't find one. And I tried to do a, you know, hello fresh is a subscription. That's more of your packages. And then you still kind of go out and go to the bodega and get something, hear it when you need it, and that's more pay-per-lease. But ultimately, we see people use our packages when they want more visibility, more tools, maybe more insights. And then we see people use pay-per-lease and love pay-per-lease and thank you both for loving pay-per-lease as a flexible starting point or something that they want that's a little bit more low risk, particularly if they have high seasonality. So we offer both. We want our marketers to be able to flex between both models. And I really think it's a distinct value edge that we have as an ILS is that we are willing to have that flexibility for our partners based on what you need your marketing to do for you.
SPEAKER_02Okay. No, I think that's awesome. So thank you. I think we both uh, you know, this is audio only, but we did both um have a big sigh of relief. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about, you know, because I have talked to marketers before who've said, like, oh my gosh, I didn't know there was a pay-per-lease model. I've only used packages before. So you can you talk a little bit about, you know, you talked about flexibility and more tools, but can you be a little more specific about the difference between a pay per lease versus the packages?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, though there's the similarities from our packages and our pay-per-leases, you think about our base package and pay per lease are very much in a similar standing. So think about them as two doors to enter advertising your properties on Zillow. And then if you want more visibility, better bells and whistles for your photos, for your properties, that's when you're gonna upgrade to a higher tier package. You want some, you know, Facebook advertising, Insta on there, that's gonna be coming with packages. Same with better bells and whistles for analytics. We had a partnership with Moody's that was announced last year, although that feels like five years ago based off of our momentum and how many partnerships we've been working on over the past few years, but that's what you're gonna get with packages. So base packages and paper lease, you can think of almost in the same footing. And then if you want more bells and whistles with analytics, um social media, that's gonna be when you're gonna upgrade. And we have partners that have both within their portfolio. Sometimes they go with one fully, they go with another. You know, I learned about this being, I don't know, a fresh face or a newer face in the multifamily business is that there is not one partner that is alike. Everybody's role, everybody's role as marketer is different. And so that's really what we're trying to do when we say you can have both doors to enter, you can flex between the two based off of what you need.
SPEAKER_01Jamie, I appreciate you saying that. As you know, I'm a fan of Zillow, been using you guys for a very long time. Let's talk about that a little bit more because I think there are some listeners out here that that don't want to just have the same marketing plan for each community. All of our communities are different, some are more competitive than others. Um, I can tell you there are a lot of my communities where Zillow, I'm killing it because my competitors just don't think they have the demographics for it. And I want to get into that too, but we will in a second. Just the demographics, who's using Zillow. But maybe we can just dive in as a follow-up question. If I want to use pay-per-elease on a couple, but use a package on a couple, I'm not tied in with you guys, right? I can kind of pick and choose and make my marketing plan for each community specific to what the needs are.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I know this sounds wild in a world where you know people are put into long contracts that are inflexible, but that is not what we're trying to do. We heard from our advisory board, gosh, it must have been a couple years ago. It was one of those hand to the forehead moments where they told us, you're missing out on our Monday morning marketing budget call. And I asked them to explain more to that. And they said, you know, on Monday, we look at each property and we see what it needs, and we say, Oh, we need $800 of this remaining budget on property A. And you're missing out on that every single time, Zillow, because you're only in this packages world or you're in these like rigid contracts that don't allow us to dial things up when we need to. And so we set out on a mission to offer more flexibility and allow these two products to perform alongside each other. Um, you know, we see other people that have offered this, and it was a real learning of like, let's break it all and give our advisory board their point of view and trial it out. We tested a lot of it, and now we're in 2025 here, and both doors are there for our partners to participate with either product, flex up and down. We're even offering um for current partners when you have no need for advertising on your properties to keep a property claimed so that it is visible if you type in the address on Zillow so that it can be found. Like our goal again is centered around the renter. And what we found when we were rigid and missing out on property participation is that was creating a black hole with the renter of trust. And that's not in our best interest. We want renters to trust us, come to us again and again, and ultimately hand that renter experience over to our partners.
SPEAKER_01Some breath of fresh air, Hyan. We've been talking about this for a long time. Thank you for listening and breaking down the walls. I think that's one of the biggest pieces of this industry that we're still missing is willing to just get outside of the box and not just do it because it's worked for 50 years. The renters have changed. Our demographics have changed. If you don't mind, maybe we can talk a little bit about that. Who's using Zillow these days and why is it so effective for companies like mine?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, shameless plug to Zillow.com backslash data or our consumer housing trends report. You can get such a wealth of knowledge about renters, renters on Zillow, um, by accessing either one of these spaces. But what I think is always interesting, when I joined this industry, one of the most common things I would hear at Apartmentalize or AIM was Zilla does rentals. Everybody thought of us, and some still do, as a forestale uh brand. But what we found is that actually positions us to help serve our partners even more so. So according to Zilla Data, you know, more than half of renters start their search thinking about buying. And then they ultimately sign a lease. And Zillow, the brand that is in the hearts and minds of a lot of people and for sale, we're uniquely positioned to take those renters that end up signing a lease and hand them over to our partners more than anybody else. And so um, that's what we're seeing. And then we're also, we started out very strong in the single family marketplace. Uh, it was, you know, where we had done a ton of growth. And then the past couple of years, we've been really doubling down on building out our multifamily marketplace. And so I don't think you can find any platform that has that single family, multifamily, and everything in between to offer renters, which again, if they're coming back to Zillow time and time again, ultimately they're going to be funneling into your door as a partner of Zillow.
SPEAKER_01It's awesome. Yeah. It's true.
SPEAKER_02Yep. I love it. You're talking about the data. I mean, even in your interface, I haven't used the Moody reports yet, but kind of some of the basic reports that are available so that you can see kind of by market, like the rent ranges that people are looking for, um, and number of bedrooms and having it be available right there instead of having to like get in touch with your rep and do that whole thing is just really, really nice, um, especially as we're trying to sell um, you know, as we're trying to personalize marketing packages for each of our apartments. And, you know, I think to a trend that we've seen is that um it from a third-party management standpoint, owners are are wanting more information and they're wanting to make sure that we're making the right marketing decisions. So it is really nice having that data available.
SPEAKER_03And we really lean into being an insights partner for you. We're not trying to make this an incredibly expensive, inaccessible product for you. We want it to be in your at your fingertips because we know, again, this is a complex industry where you know our best partners are selling Zillow value to their clients. And so we need to make that easy. And so, again, there's a lot widely available on Zilla.com. There's a lot in your account portal. Go talk to your sales professional, call me. Um, I'll walk you through your videos, reports, and help you find your way. But there's, you know, the Ranger analytics, what we're seeing, it changes so often. I mean, I'm still I still feel very new to this industry because I go to these events and people are 30, 40 plus years, and I'm not even to 10. You know, we just see so much has changed. I think when I started work from home, shared spaces were all the rage. And now we're seeing because of affordability challenges, renters are skewing on a much higher age bracket. And so we're wanting larger units and spaces for families and you know, working professionals. And so it changes all the time. Definitely shout out to our consumer housing trends report because it's the most updated, comprehensive analytics of what we're seeing um going to Zillow on a day-to-day basis.
SPEAKER_02First of all, so thank you for bringing those rumors to rest. Um, you know, I think a lot of us can sleep easy now that our beloved paper lease is not gonna go away. And, you know, understanding that we do have additional options with Zillow. Um, let's switch gears for a minute because you all had an announcement a little while ago um that you were partnering with Elise AI to improve the uh renter experience on Zillow.com's the rentals portion. And so I'm hoping you can talk to us a little bit more about that partnership.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, this is really exciting. We're teaming up with Elise AI to bring their smart leasing assistant right into Zillow. So renters get fast answers and leasing teams get a helping hand 24-7. Um, that's all gonna be available towards the end of the year for all of our multifamily partners at zero cost to them. So, this is again, we're about providing more value, deepening our partnership for the long haul because we know it serves our North Star, which is our shared customer, the renter. Uh, we're the only platform that's gonna offer that built-in at least AI experience for free. And it's just all geared towards higher conversion by capturing high-intent renters. You know, we've been busy with partnerships and growth in the past couple of years. This one was just such a great moment when we talked to partners prior to the announcement. The reaction was just a, you know, a high five, uh, like, oh, that just makes a ton of sense reaction. Elise AI has an incredible product, they have a great brand in the industry. And so it just feels like a match made in heaven for our partners that we're really excited to bring to a theater near you towards the end of the year. I asked us too.
SPEAKER_01We I don't need to be a member, I don't have to be part of Elise AI, right? I this is all gonna be built in and just part of your system now to try to funnel leads out and get some high quality, maybe take a little bit of the the intro, the top of the funnel, bring them into the next layer, maybe.
SPEAKER_03You nailed it. And so I think what we're spending time on right now is working with partners to pilot the built-in smart leasing assistant, make sure you know the plumbing all works, that there's no leaks in the system, because we understand uh when we had talks about this partnership early on, there's a real fear about AI and introducing AI into your leasing teams, your systems, your process. So we're working diligently to make it really easy so that when green light happens towards the end of the year, you're just calling me saying how happy you are because your leasing teams are getting that helping hand and you're able to convert and capture more high-intent fronters.
SPEAKER_02And so just you know, to confirm this is on Zillow on the homepage or specific listings. Um, is it like a chat bot where people can ask questions and uh be it will help them find listings that are the best fit for them? Is that okay?
SPEAKER_03So you're gonna have property-specific answers for renters, automated tour scheduling, and follow-up through chat, and that's all available through the Zillow login. And then there is an opportunity when you want full bells and whistles of Elise AI for sure. Like they wouldn't be a great partnership if there wasn't a path for the full bells and whistles with Elise AI, but um, starting towards the end of the year, that smart leasing assistant will be available and 24-7 helping hand for you.
SPEAKER_02Okay. No, I love that. And I think that's interesting too, because you basically are capitalizing on a trend of consumers leaning more towards kind of this AI search, AI helpers. Um, but instead of having them go to maybe a Chat GPT or a Gemini or another AI search engine, you're saying, hey, stay on Zillow.com and we'll give you the functionality that you might find somewhere else to help you through our site. I think that's just really smart. I mean, that's what a great way to intercept the, you know, kind of how we're seeing renters find information.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's our way to break, like not every partner is going out and putting using AI in the leasing experience, but we know our renters are expecting a different experience because the world is changing. And so this is our attempt to bridge that gap is like keep that offer the service. If you don't want it, by the way, you can turn it off. Um, but our goal is that it's so impactful and so helpful to your business and your release conversion, you would never dream of it. And so that's what we're testing now with current partners, and then again with a full skill launch towards the end of the year.
SPEAKER_01It sounds like I'm probably like a commercial for Zillow, but it's because I really I do like her product a lot. So take it, please. I just love Zillow so much, okay? And I always have. We'll just leave it there.
SPEAKER_03I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01But I think but but in our industry in an industry that is usually so slow to react, it's it's really a kind of a breath of fresh air that you are breaking down the barriers and the walls to to really help us. I mean, this is a competitive game, and really what you're trying to do is help us get qualified renters. The truth is, Jamie, I would rather have the AI go through this lead, answer the questions, and they self-select out than to send somebody to a website and have them you know schedule a tour and then not show up. I mean, if if your system really can, if this works the way it should, and you're getting us better renters at the end of the day, well, I'll take less traffic all day long for better quality. I think all of us would in this industry. And so it's just a breath of fresh air that you guys are working actively towards it. And why not use the tools of AI? We're all using it these days in some form or another. All of us. I mean, just in our daily lives, we're using it to find things, whether we're buying houses or renting apartments. And so to me, this is a a really fresh take on how to help us be better. And with all the data out there these days, and with all the prospects, I mean, at the end of the day, we're trying to cut out the noise. There is just so much out there, and this is a just another way to be a little bit different and help us out a little bit more. And so I think it's it's a really cool idea. And I can't wait to see it on my properties. You can know for sure. I am not gonna say no. You can beta test me tomorrow.
SPEAKER_02Chris is already signed, he's already signed that. He's like genius by me.
SPEAKER_03I do think part of what makes Zillow incredibly special in rentals, like we have a fresh perspective. We weren't known for renting. We weren't heck, we weren't even known for apartments um until probably the past few years. And so that fresh perspective is actually an advantage because it gives us an opportunity to think different, build smarter tools, and focus what really works for renters and marketers. You know, more often than not, in my job, I get a house, you've been at Zolo 14 years, like, well, I need something wrong with you, or like, why have you been there so long? And there's two pieces to it. And this the first part is the what's most important to this conversation, which is we really believe and stand up for our mission, which is to do right by our customer and help them find their way home. There is a monetary monetization business behind all of that, but like if we continue to put our customer at the front of everything we Do the ad products, the partners, the big business all follows. And that has not changed in the 13, 14 years that I've been here. And it's really what keeps me at this company.
SPEAKER_01It's awesome. It's a good segue into the next piece, right, Ant? Since we're talking about AI.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So there's another uh maybe potential partnership on the horizon, also AI related. Um, this time with Google Gemini. So we're hoping you can tell us a little more about that.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Uh I like again, it's been a very busy year. Momentum is in our favor and ultimately in our partners' favor. But yeah, we're working with Google on a potential Gemini integration that demonstrates how renters could book an apartment tour with Zillow through AI Conversation. Uh, we're hoping to launch to build out the integration and launch by the end of this year as well. So lots hinging uh towards the fall season for us. You know, Google was looking for a rental partner with the scale and brand trust that we have. And you know, with the most rental listings in the United States, it just seemed like, again, another match made in heaven, plus our instant touring ability. It's just a natural fit. Um, our goal is just constantly to make it easier for renters to discover homes that meet their needs in moments that they're searching, and then hand that wonderful renter off to incredible partners like you too and your listening audience to fill their vacancies. And, you know, again, if we have that handoff complete, Zillow is a full, you know, we call it the super app, the full home experiences renters are going to become buyers and buyers are gonna become sellers, and sellers are gonna become renters. And so we're committed to making sure that's a delightful experience, which, you know, it's not. And like that's that's why we we want to continue to invest in these things. Um, and it ultimately pays off for our partners. I was listening to one of your podcasts, was pretty recent. I think you closed on like the is Google search dead or gonna get replaced by GPT. And I thought this is a perfect segue. Yeah, maybe you want my opinion, is like I don't think you definitely want your opinion.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03So, Chris, I don't think Google search is dead. I do think it's changing though. And I think this partnership is a perfect example of how it's gonna change. Is like Google, like Zillow, is gonna be held to a different standard of serving its audience. And that for them, that's gonna be having AI conversation in a search experience. For Zillow, you can expect we're holding a very high bar to ourselves for how we can use AI in on our site and in our experience in the year and years to come. And so this is just a sneak peek into what I think all of us are gonna be expected to do in the prop tech space of like, or if you're serving a partner, like every one of you on this call, and like for you, like we all have to evolve to the way this new world works. Like, I can't imagine a day in my job now without AI, and the renter is certainly not going to accept an experience without it in the future.
SPEAKER_01This is amazing stuff. Uh, so Zillow does have some ancillary tools and you have photos and you have all this information that we give you, we feed you through our CRM. How is that gonna be integrated with the AI, both with a lease and with the Google partnership? Do you think it'll be seamless? Are they gonna get everything? Are you gonna hold back on some of the stuff until you kind of test it out? What do you think is gonna be available for renters to be able to search within these AI platforms?
SPEAKER_03Um, most of the time with all of our partnerships, product launches, experience changes, we beta test till we're very certain it improves our customer experience and then hands off into a better partner experience. And so Alicia I is not like we've been in Talks. Like we have we're comfortable enough to share this announcement in spring, but we're doing a lot of work in the next 90 days to test to make sure it's a delightful experience for the renter and then an even more delightful experience for the partner. Just because we're giving it to you for free, there's a consequence if it doesn't work. And so we want to make sure it's a five-star experience all around. And the same with the Google Gemini partnership is we would make sure that it's a benefit to the customer, which is our North Star, and then ultimately hands off to value for our partners.
SPEAKER_02So I like how you're talking about this customer life cycle, and you do have the benefit of the homeowner and the renter. And so I like that although Zillow Rentals is a separate product, you're all together under Zillow and really thinking about that full cycle. So I just wanted to say that out loud.
SPEAKER_03I don't have a question or anything. Yeah, so when I didn't say that, no, it it it is it's a real thing. It's in the ethos of our company and our culture is to think about making housing easy. Um, I remember when I, you know, I can be a sales gal anywhere, but I get to be a sales gal and at a company that's trying to make housing easy, fast, fair for all. Somebody's gonna do it. And I believe in this company to do so. And then I just so happen to get to work with great partners and solve their needs and their goals and you know, change housing. That's like the coolest opportunity ever. You know, Zillow's, we're not trying to be everywhere. We are narrow in the housing space. We're trying to be essential, you know, and we do that by in rentals. We want to be the most trusted and complete marketplace out there. And, you know, we focus on expanding our inventory, expanding our network, and then innovate on tools that actually drive results. And that's been the narrow focus from the time that I started to today.
SPEAKER_01So, Jamie, I I have great reps and I've done this a lot. But for our listeners, do you think you could give some tips on what makes a listing stand out and what performs best in a listing? Uh, it's really helped me to have the reps come in and just say, like, here's what people actually want. Rearrange this photo. Here's make sure you highlight this in your text.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and so if you could give some tips to our listeners, I think it'd be super beneficial.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I don't think I'm gonna blow anyone's mind, but it is good to get on the record for what makes um listing stand out. And this is also important to note often, this might lead into this question, which is how do packages or paper release rank on Zillow? Like, how do I get high listing to stand out? And so I'll start it with what you can control. Like, you should absolutely focus on high-quality photos, 3D, detailed descriptions, features like instant tour booking, those all tend to get more engagement, and more engagement is part of how your properties are going to show up on Zillow. And then on top of that, your advertising choice is going to be icing on the cake that can influence that. So when you're thinking as a marketer, focus on what you can control. I'll say it again: like photos, 3D, detailed descriptions, features like instant tour, like go spend the time. Your sales professional, there is somebody at Zilla who has your phone number. You can call it if you don't again call me. We'll make sure somebody can guide you through this. There's a lot in your control that makes your property stand out. And then the icing on the cake that can influence it further is what advertising choice you choose to place on that property.
SPEAKER_01That totally makes sense. I mean, I know in my case, they'll tell me, hey, this pool photo is not great, switch it to the gym, or don't show the clubhouse yet, show that third. Um the the reps at Zillow actually have it pretty dialed in on what people are are looking for on these listings, uh, and of course being complete. And that goes into being back to the basics, which I think is kind of Anna and I've been talking about it since we met three years ago, but now it's like a big thing this year in our industry. It's like everybody's talking about back to the basics. Well, duh. That's great. Like that is but but it just like I know you said it's like a duh moment, but it's not like we have so much going on. Sometimes you don't think about the order of your photos in your CRM that's that's going out to your ILS partner. So I think it is good to hear a professional who's seen it and knows it from the from the data that you're getting that it does matter.
SPEAKER_03And we do know like the community, the vibe of your property, it matters. And so you should be thinking when you're looking at your property on Zillow, how is that community? How is that how are those shared spaces? How are those coming across? Because the unit, yes, that matters. The the 3D, it matters, but really making sure your brand and your community comes across in your property is going to be key because again, the render engagement has a lot to do with how your listings perform.
SPEAKER_01That's a good tidbit. I hadn't heard that before. So to me, that's breaking news. All right, engagement matters.
SPEAKER_02Indeed, guys. No, I think that's okay. Hold on. So then you guys have benchmarks too. Like we can see if our listings are performing based on our the benchmarks of other properties on Zillow. So I've always liked that too. It's like then at least there's an indicator of oh, this listing isn't performing as well as it should, and then you can start thinking about some of the things. Go back to the engagement again, though. Like how people are engaging with your listing.
SPEAKER_03Yes. So the way it impacts it is uh when people ask like about ranking on Zillow, Zillow's search tools designed to surface listings that are relevant to the renter, and that's based on location, price, photos, and responsiveness. So that's gonna have a huge role in how your properties perform. And then the advertising product of your choice is gonna be the second lever that would influence that. What responsiveness of like the site team? The renter engagement with your property listing. So again, you can control that by if you're if your vibe is coming across great on your property, you're gonna get more renter engagement, which is ultimately going to determine where you rank and and and and performance.
SPEAKER_02That's an I mean, that's like SEO, you know, kind of SEO ranking factors. Uh, so that's really yeah. Chris, I hadn't thought of that either. That took me a minute.
SPEAKER_03I was like, wait, what if you can find you know 10, 15 minutes in your day to talk to your Zilla professional, they're so well equipped to guide you on ensuring your listings are of the highest quality. So let you know, let that partnership show up in full effect. Uh, you don't have to go at this low.
SPEAKER_02Okay. No, I think that sounds great. And like you said, I mean, that helps your platform be stronger from for the renters, and so it it helps everyone. So we've talked about, you know, it sounds like you're really streamlining, first of all, you're offering flexible packages so you know, marketers can have their property show up on Zillow the way that they need their property to show up. Um, keeping pay-per-lease, you're really transforming the renter experience uh through AI partnerships um and also helping your property management and owner partners by you know getting the more qualified leads. So after you guys go through all of this, what's next for Zillow? Like what can we expect in the future?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh once I catch our Brab, I I we failed to even talk about our gigantic partnerships that have launched in the past, I don't know, year or so with Realtor and Ren. Like we went from three brands to seven brands. Again, just knowing that renters are looking more than just one spot, and we really want to make sure your properties are seen as far as the eye can see uh to help you meet your business goals. But beyond that, you know, Zillow's focused on doubling down on its commitment to being a best in-class rentals marketplace. That is square focus for us. I just got out of our three-year planning process, and the ideas that were coming out of that session were some of the most innovative, creative I've ever seen. It's more than just ad products, it's about the shopping experience. It's about AI, Chris. Don't worry, search isn't going away, but it is gonna change. Uh and really helping with the resident experience so that we can be that trusted brand that people come back to again and again and ultimately serve that value back to our partners. So that's the key focus. You know, if you want a front side, front row seat to this, I highly encourage anybody to reach out to us to attend our unlock conference in Austin. It's October 20th through 23rd. It's just a Zillow event, uh, no big wild trade show, really about best practices in the business, how to get the most out of our partnership. And we look forward to having you all there.
SPEAKER_01So, what's next? What's coming in our industry? You can take your Zillow hat off. What do you think is gonna be the next innovation that we have coming? Tell me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think um back to the pod where you were talking about Google search versus GPT. My opinion on this is I think those two, I think everything is gonna compromise to be a Frankenstein of both. People want what they like the value you get out of search is I can fact check it. It's uh prioritize and refresh, like I can really see where things are landing and how they appear. I can do my research, uh, but then GPT, you know, I have uh an assistant, I have a psychiatrist, I have a buddy alongside me that can really hold my hand. And gosh, who doesn't want that when they're looking for a place to call home? Or for me, like I was just looking for what to buy for my son's birthday that's coming up. Like, I think those two things are gonna marry and we are going to be better because of it. Uh, the search experience will become less linear and more personable, uh, as well as the GPT experience needs to get more clear with where it's synthesizing its results. So that's what I see showing up in the world, but I do see it being front and center with the Zillow experience because we would be behind the times if we don't find a way to merge the expectation of having that handhold that GPT offers along with the search and brand that Zillow's worked really hard to grow for our audience.
SPEAKER_01That was a great answer. Thanks, Jamie. Um, I think I tend to agree with you, although I'm a Google fan and I love Google so much. So they gotta stay alive somehow.
SPEAKER_03My dad is they're gonna die. It's gonna change.
SPEAKER_01I think it's gonna have to change for sure. They're gonna have to adapt.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Now, there has been a lot of consolidation, and you've been a big part of it at Zillow. And we didn't talk about the rent and we didn't talk about realtor, but those were big announcements. I mean, quite frankly, I was I almost fell on my chair when my rent, like I'm friends with some of the people at rent, and they I got a text and I like got a phone call as soon as it happened. I my my jaw dropped. Yes, that was huge. And I know you can't like really talk about things that aren't in the mix, so again, take off your Zolo hat. What other consolidation do you think is gonna happen in our industry on this side? I think there has to be some more innovation, and this I think this just isn't an actual kind of occurring day. I think I was just so shocked because rent, for rent, apartment guide, whoever however you know him, has been with us for so long.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01What else do you think is gonna happen, or do you think we're done for a while? Um, that you know, the tech is there, our partners are there. Um, can you give us any insight on what you think might happen on the ILS side?
SPEAKER_03I think you know, we have a ton of great goodness coming from the Realtor partnership, the RET partnership. We also so grateful we were able to learn a lot from the RET team, many of which are working at Zillow now. So thankful. Like we we learned a lot in that partnership. We've learned a lot from Realtor and continuing to improve our offering and how we partner with you has been a huge learning for us this past year. I think the consolidation for me, my prediction would be ILS offerings need to continue to bring more value than leads. Uh, and you'll see that with our partnership with Google Gemini, Elise AI, even the partnership with Redvin, Rent, Realtor is offering more for sticky partnership and value. You have to go sell your services every day. And so we need to enable you to do so. And you're gonna see that with AI, better tooling. Um, everything I'm talking about with our team that's three years down the road is product and experience. And we keep it in those two categories. And when we can find opportunities to improve our products and our experience for the renter, typically that adds value to our partner, and that's what we're gonna continue to double down on.
SPEAKER_01Awesome.
SPEAKER_02Love it. Um, no, and I think I mean that's smart because it is not just about leads anymore. I mean, we're starting to see that our prospect to scheduled tour might be going up, but our scheduled tour to show the percentage is going down. And so there, as all of our marketing sources are changing and adding more opportunities for renters to engage and take quick action. Um, I think in some cases we're seeing other metrics decrease.
SPEAKER_03And so uh lead volume going up is not any good unless you know some of those unless it follows conversion is too like we've we've heard that loud and clear is we don't need to be the largest lead volume provider, we need to offer you the most competitive lease conversion, and so that's what we spend our time working to improve. Now, when we nail that, more leads do help. And so that's where you see the partnerships of realtor and refin really make sense. We knew there was value in providing more renter access to our partners with our higher quality leads and conversion that we're hearing from our partners.
SPEAKER_02Are you able to tell us? I mean, what and I know it depends market by market, but maybe like in the United States, what percentage of renters are kind of using Zillow first or using Zillow and its properties first before maybe some of the other are you able to talk about market share at all?
SPEAKER_03Um, I can tell you, you know, one particular fact that I'm so proud of is 80% of Zillow's traffic is organic. That's huge. We don't have to go by every renter lead, um, like others might have to do, is people are coming to Zillow because they trust us. Uh, and that's on the for sale side, that's on the renter side. And so that's a huge advantage for our partners, is they're coming to us because that is the brand that they trust. That is the brand that they expect to get them home. And so, again, that's where we spend our focus is products and experience to transition that organic interest directly into your hands to fill your vacancies.
SPEAKER_02It's really great, Chris.
SPEAKER_01You look like you have no, I just I've enjoyed this so much. Jamie, I think you know, you've been with us for you know 50 minutes now. We appreciate your time. Um, do you want to is there anything that you miss that you want to get in, or are we good? We can wrap up the pod. And before after that, I do have one piece for you that's not multi-family related.
SPEAKER_03But so you know, we we are such a I'm such a fan of your podcast. Thank you for doing this. As somebody who came into the industry, you can't imagine how many how much goodness I've received, learnings and lessons from listening to you too. So I appreciate this opportunity. Uh, I appreciate your partnership. Uh, thank you for being fans. Uh, thank you for being a fan of paper lease. I'll get I love paper lease shirts made for each of us to wear. Um, and then yeah, I I highly encourage anyone who's listening who wants to know more, come to come to Austin, come to our unlock event. We'd love to give you the full tour of what Zill is all about. Uh, because we're the real deal. We are focused on our shared customer and ultimately helping renters get home.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Jamie. Thank you so much, first of all, for being here. Second, for the kind words. Um, you know, Chris and I started this podcast about a year ago um to do exactly what you just said. And so when we get to hear that uh we're we're bringing Value to folks that that means a lot. Um, so until next time, this has been the apartment department. Thank you to our producer Carlos, thank you to our sponsor Flamingo, thank you to Jamie, thank you to Chris, and uh, we will talk to everyone soon.